{"id":4424,"date":"2025-06-09T16:17:19","date_gmt":"2025-06-09T13:17:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/themuseumguy.weblorenz.com\/?p=4424"},"modified":"2026-02-10T19:19:51","modified_gmt":"2026-02-10T17:19:51","slug":"interview-with-prof-jill-katz-of-stern-college-on-tell-es-safi-excavation-2016-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/he\/post\/interview-with-prof-jill-katz-of-stern-college-on-tell-es-safi-excavation-2016-2\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Prof. Jill Katz of Stern College on Tell es-Safi excavation (2016)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image alignright size-full is-resized\"><a href=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz.webp\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1024\" height=\"682\" src=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz.webp\" alt=\"a photo of jill katz\" class=\"wp-image-6020\" style=\"aspect-ratio:1.499267935578331;width:318px;height:auto\" srcset=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz.webp 1024w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz-300x200.webp 300w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz-768x512.webp 768w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz-18x12.webp 18w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/jill-katz-600x400.webp 600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 1024px) 100vw, 1024px\" \/><\/a><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&nbsp;have&nbsp;had&nbsp;the&nbsp;privilege&nbsp;to&nbsp;visit the Tell es-Safi excavation for&nbsp;two&nbsp;days this summer (July 12&amp;14, 2016). Even better than the visit itself was the opportunity to interview a few archaeologists, each responsible for either this or other sites.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">As a&nbsp;Jewish Educator, it really interested me to learn about their perspectives on the importance of archaeology in general, and specifically towards Biblical studies. What we&nbsp;learn from archaeology? For the teachers among us &#8211; not limited to classroom teachers, but a parent, spouse or friend, planning a museum visit &#8211; what can we do differently, with this knowledge in hand?&nbsp;Even if we can\u2019t actually be on the site, ourselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">When I tell people that I\u2019m going to visit, say, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, they often respond in wonder&nbsp;\u201cWhat is there to see in the Met, which has&nbsp;<em>any<\/em>&nbsp;Biblical significance?\u201d Most of us just go straight to the overwhelming amount of art galleries, and perhaps walk through the Greek and Roman art, without contemplating the significance they might have to the encounter of Judaism with those cultures. Those statues are decorative, otherwise the hallway to the big pond with the coins would be boring. Perhaps if your kids are reading Percy Jackson (Rick Riordan\u2019s five-part series, 2005-2009), there might be something closer to home about Greek art.&nbsp;It amazes me that people don\u2019t realize the wealth the museum has to offer in terms of archaeology of the ancient world, that that there would be any Biblical significance there. I just found out, for example, that the Ancient Egyptian collection at the Met is the largest in the world, after Cairo (if what their plaque says is accurate). The few hours I\u2019ve spent there were not enough to even scratch the surface, and I can\u2019t wait to go again.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I recommend checking out the other interviews from this experience, including: Prof. Aren Maier, and Dr. Daniel Warrener<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">(Disclaimer: Some of the information about the professors is taken from Wikipedia, even if slightly modified)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Interview&nbsp;with Dr. Jill (Citron) Katz<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><em>Clinical Assistant Professor of Archaeology, Yeshiva University<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><em>Academic Advisor, Stern College for Women, Yeshiva University<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><em>Dr. Katz has excavated at several sites in Israel, including Ashkelon, Tel Haror\/Gerar, and most recently Tell es-Safi\/Gath where she currently serves as Area Supervisor for Area P. Her research interests focus on the nature of Israelite leadership during the time of the Judges (Iron I period) and on emergent urban life during the time of King David (Iron IIa).<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n<!--presto-player:video_id=471--><figure class=\"wp-block-video presto-block-video  presto-provider-youtube\" style=\"--plyr-color-main: var(--presto-player-highlight-color, #0877a7); --presto-player-logo-width: 150px; \">\n\t<presto-player 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08:12:43&quot;,&quot;deleted_at&quot;:&quot;&quot;}'\n\t\tbranding='{&quot;logo&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;color&quot;:&quot;#0877a7&quot;,&quot;logo_width&quot;:150,&quot;player_css&quot;:&quot;&quot;}'\n\t\tchapters='[]'\n\t\toverlays='[]'\n\t\ttracks='[]'\n\t\tblock-attributes='{&quot;playsInline&quot;:true,&quot;id&quot;:471,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https:\\\/\\\/youtu.be\\\/2htAFnaH4a0&quot;,&quot;preset&quot;:2,&quot;video_id&quot;:&quot;2htAFnaH4a0&quot;,&quot;visibility&quot;:&quot;public&quot;,&quot;color&quot;:&quot;#00b3ff&quot;,&quot;mutedPreview&quot;:{&quot;enabled&quot;:false,&quot;captions&quot;:false},&quot;mutedOverlay&quot;:{&quot;enabled&quot;:false,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;width&quot;:200,&quot;focalPoint&quot;:{&quot;x&quot;:0.5,&quot;y&quot;:0.5}},&quot;mutedOverlayType&quot;:&quot;text&quot;,&quot;mutedOverlayText&quot;:&quot;Click to play&quot;,&quot;mutedOverlayImageWidth&quot;:200,&quot;chapters&quot;:[],&quot;overlays&quot;:[],&quot;tracks&quot;:[],&quot;TrpContentRestriction&quot;:{&quot;restriction_type&quot;:&quot;exclude&quot;,&quot;selected_languages&quot;:[],&quot;panel_open&quot;:true},&quot;title&quot;:&quot;Interview with Prof. Jill Katz at Tel es Safi, July 2016&quot;}'\n\t\tanalytics=''\n\t\tautomations\t\tprovider='youtube'\n\t\tdirection=\"rtl\"\t\tid=\"presto-player-1\"\n\t\tsrc=\"\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/2htAFnaH4a0?iv_load_policy=3&amp;modestbranding=1&amp;playinline=1&amp;showinfo=0&amp;rel=0&amp;enablejsapi=1\"\n\t\tmedia-title=\"Interview with Prof. Jill Katz at Tel es Safi, July 2016\"\n\t\tcss=\"\"\n\t\tclass=\"presto-video-id-471 presto-preset-id-2 skin-modern\"\n\t\tskin=\"modern\" \n\t\ticon-url=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/plugins\/presto-player\/img\/sprite.svg\" \n\t\tpreload=\"\" \n\t\tposter=\"\"\n\t\tyoutube=\"{&quot;noCookie&quot;:true,&quot;channelId&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;show_count&quot;:false}\"\n\t\tprovider-video-id=\"2htAFnaH4a0\"\n\t\tvideo-id=\"471\"\n\t\t\t\tplaysinline \n\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\n    <div class=\"presto-iframe-fallback-container\">\n        <iframe style=\"width: 100%\" title=\"Youtube Video\" class=\"presto-fallback-iframe\" id=\"presto-iframe-fallback-1\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/2htAFnaH4a0?iv_load_policy=3&amp;modestbranding=1&amp;playsinline=1&amp;showinfo=0&amp;rel=0&amp;enablejsapi=1\" allowfullscreen allowtransparency allow=\"autoplay\"><\/iframe>\n    <\/div>\n\n\t<\/presto-player>\n<\/figure>\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\">Transcription of the interview:<\/h3>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><em>What&nbsp;is&nbsp;the&nbsp;value&nbsp;of&nbsp;archaeological&nbsp;excavations&nbsp;in&nbsp;general,&nbsp;and&nbsp;specifically&nbsp;for&nbsp;Biblical&nbsp;studies.<\/em><\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I&nbsp;think&nbsp;that&nbsp;Archaeological&nbsp;studies&nbsp;are&nbsp;a&nbsp;good&nbsp;compliment&nbsp;to&nbsp;historical&nbsp;studies.&nbsp;In&nbsp;the&nbsp;sense&nbsp;that,&nbsp;it&nbsp;comes&nbsp;at&nbsp;you,&nbsp;the&nbsp;general&nbsp;approach&nbsp;is&nbsp;that&nbsp;this&nbsp;is&nbsp;reflecting&nbsp;the&nbsp;elite&nbsp;culture,&nbsp;maybe&nbsp;the&nbsp;male&nbsp;culture,&nbsp;but&nbsp;this&nbsp;is&nbsp;something&nbsp;that&nbsp;is&nbsp;written&nbsp;by&nbsp;the&nbsp;victors.&nbsp;And&nbsp;so,&nbsp;there\u2019s&nbsp;whole&nbsp;swaps&nbsp;of&nbsp;people&nbsp;and&nbsp;of&nbsp;life&nbsp;that&nbsp;are&nbsp;not&nbsp;really&nbsp;reflected&nbsp;in&nbsp;history.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Historical studies [&#8230;] this&nbsp;is reflecting the elite culture [\u2026] something that is written by the victors. And so, there\u2019s whole swaps of people and of life that are not really reflected in history<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So, you know, you can find out what the kings and queens were doing, and what the elite were doing, but you don\u2019t necessarily know what the average person was doing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I think what the big advantage of archaeology is that, we have the opportunity to really reflect, and find the remains of almost everybody. Certainly we can excavate a palace, we can excavate a temple, but there is a lot of emphasis, particularly today, in excavating a farmstead, investigating just the daily life of regular people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The number one find that we find in archaeological sites are ceramic remains, pots. Ceramics is something that everybody used, it was ubiquitous.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">A king or queen &#8211; they would have fancy pots. But the average person still had to use pots for storing food, for preparing food, serving food, eating food. Everybody was using it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I think the best thing about archaeology is that it reflects sort of the general population as well as the elite population. And it reminds us that, you know, most of us are not necessarily in the elite. So you get a sense of what the majority of people were like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><em>And for biblical&nbsp;studies?<\/em><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">For Biblical studies, again, Tanach &#8211; it\u2019s about the Jewish people. When you read Shmuel or Melachim (Kings), these are like the annals that were kept, recording the lives of the kings and of the important events in their reigns. I think that archaeology, again, provides a really nice compliment, in the sense that archaeology reminds us that the average people, they were farmers. They lives an agricultural lifestyle. When we excavate, we see that aspect of that. And we are reminded that it is not just wars, battles, palace intrigue and that type of thing. But, that we were able to really reconstruct daily life. We see the foods that they were eating, we see the houses that they were building, and get a great appreciation that for most of this early part of Jewish history, probably up until the middle ages, Jews were basically self-sufficient. The family was a self-sufficient unit. The family provided all of its clothing, all of its food. And this is what we can see on archaeological sites.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What has Tell es-Safi contributed to our understanding of the Biblical narrative?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"has-background\" style=\"background-color:#1b325a\">Ok. So this site, is a wonderful site. I think the first thing that anybody coming to the site would notice, and I\u2019m actually looking at the upper Tell right there, you have the lower tels spread below us, and Emek haElah (Elah valley) right to my left here, is you get the sense of the scale. This is a&nbsp;<em>huge<\/em>&nbsp;site in the ancient world, something on the order of 500 dunam (around 123 acres), which is probably around ten times the size of Jerusalem in the Iron Age I period (1150-1000 BCE, estimated time of King David and King Solomon). The philistines were formidable. Even though they were just in the southern coastal plain, they were a real power. They came and built large cities, cities that were fortified, cities that were, again, very self-sufficient, and would have dominated the region. So I think that working at Gat, and knowing that we are really at the beginning of the foothills, you get a sense of what the Israelites living in the hillside must have felt when they looks down from the hills to the foothills, and knew there was this&nbsp;<em>huge<\/em>&nbsp;city there, with a population that was well organized, and quite affluent, on a relative scale. You were dealing with a culture that was different, but in other ways it was similar.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It was different, because we know from here that they ate pork. They actually ate dog. We know from Tanach that they weren\u2019t circumcised. But in other ways their lifestyles were very similar. They diet was very similar. They had a strong emphasis on wine. They were also producing olive oil to use for their light, you know, all the legumes they age, the wheat, the barley. These were things that were common to this whole area.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">And the ceramic evidence, which at the beginning when the philistines first arrives was so strikingly different from what is being unearthed in the Israelite sites. Later on we see, one of the most interesting thing is that we are so used to the fact that wherever Jews are, they sort of assimilate to the local cultures. And here at Safi we have evidence that it is the Philistines, actually, who are assimilating into king of the larger Judahite culture, over time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>In what way?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">They adopt the Judahite style of pottery. It becomes much less Philistine, much more Judahite. At the site, a number of years ago, we found some philistine writing, and we find that they are writing using the [Hebrew] aleph-bet. And, most likely, we assume that over time they even adopted circumcision. In Tanach, later on, they are not referred to as \u201cthe uncircumcised\u201d in the same way that they are in earlier periods.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">The horned altars that they use [symbol of Safi excavation] is something they are borrowing from Judah. Language, dress, all kinds of customs, are thing that become more Judahite.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>There is mention in Shoftim (Judges) 1:18-19 that Judah gained control over Gaza, Ashkelon and Ekron and their area, but not the dwellers of the valley, for they had iron chariots.<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>Is there any evidence of that?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That is actually a really timely question, because right behind where I am working, they have what they consider what of the earliest iron workshops in the land. And it is Philistine, and I definitely recommend you go and take a look.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I don\u2019t know about the chariots, we don\u2019t have any evidence of that. The one thing about iron is that because it rusts it is very rare for you to find ancient iron. Over time it just disintegrates. Even today, you find bullets from \u201848 and they are already mostly rusted. So you can imagine that form 3,000 years ago &#8211; it\u2019s not going to be very much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But what we do find are the remnants, the detritus, the leftovers from the iron forging process. The slags. The crucibles in which it was forged. That is taking place right behind me. That is taking place, they are expanding this. It is the earliest attestation in the Land for iron use. It seems that the philistines did have a little advancement on technology. We don\u2019t know if they are the ones who invented it, or they got knowledge from where they came from. But it does seem that they had this technology before it spread to other parts of the Land of Israel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"877\" height=\"1500\" src=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-4214\" srcset=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452.jpg 877w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452-175x300.jpg 175w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452-599x1024.jpg 599w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452-768x1314.jpg 768w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452-7x12.jpg 7w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520172733452-600x1026.jpg 600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 877px) 100vw, 877px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><em>Dr. Maeir examining remains of the ancient iron workshop. Close up below.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"844\" height=\"1500\" src=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-4212\" srcset=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791.jpg 844w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791-169x300.jpg 169w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791-576x1024.jpg 576w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791-768x1365.jpg 768w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791-7x12.jpg 7w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520189697791-600x1066.jpg 600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 844px) 100vw, 844px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><strong><em>Based on what is found here, what can a teacher do differently in their classroom?<\/em><\/strong><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I think that what archaeology, sort of the essence of it, is the material remains. We have two types, there are the portable remains, like ceramics and any kinds of small find that we can take away. And then we have the architectural remains. And so, I think that being able, you know, that\u2019s where you can advance the teaching, I think. It is through using the material items, either as replicas, or showing pictures. Give the sense to people that in so many ways, their lives weren\u2019t so different&#8230;history is a foreign country. You\u2019re right, they did live different lives than we did today. But in some ways there is essential humanity. They still had to achieve their daily needs, and that is much of what their lives revolved around, just like today. It is about making sure there is enough food to eat, that there is a home, a shelter above them, clothing. And then you get a little sense of the personality when you find some kind of exotic item or something they made that is unique to them. So you see there is also this human need of creative expression, as well as to hold onto something that maybe makes you a little bit different.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But I think that what archaeology forces you to confront is that, again, in Tanach, this is an&nbsp;<em>agrarian<\/em>&nbsp;society. That is, most of the people are living as simple farmers, and in fact, that is the life that is reflected in the Mishnah and in the Talmud, and we kind of tend to forget that. We think of Judaism as always being urban, living in these cities, merchants, traders and involved in commercial activities. And the truth is that it leaves 1,500 hundred years, which, depending on how far back you want to go, is about half of our society. We were farmers. And that is what is reflected at these kinds of sites.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What is your message to a student or teacher who are thinking about coming to a dig?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I would say definitely come. It is something that you know, at this site, we have all ages. Everybody can participate. And the amazing thing about it is that we really do not know what we are going to find. And the only way to find what\u2019s here, is to dig!<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">It is the only way to find out.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">I think that just being able to touch the material, to get a sense of the earth that the people were living in, and to touch the material culture, to touch the vessels that they were using, to find a lamp that you know that somebody used to light their room so they could, maybe read by, or work by; to touch a grinding stone and say \u201cthis is what women were spending so many hours of their day doing, grinding their wheat, so that she can make the bread for her family\u201d. I think it really brings you close to the actual life, the daily life, of the characters of Tanach.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Interview with Professor Dan Warner<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><em>Dan Warner is the Director for The Michael and Sara Moskau Institute of Archaeology and the Center for Archaeological Research, professor of Old Testament and Archaeology at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and is a co-director of the Tel Gezer Water System excavation and preservation project. He has also served various roles on other excavations at Tel Kabri, Megiddo, Tel El Farah, Gerar, and Ashkelon.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nobts.edu\/ArchaeologyCenter\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>http:\/\/www.nobts.edu\/ArchaeologyCenter\/<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nobtsarchaeology.blogspot.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>http:\/\/www.nobtsarchaeology.blogspot.com\/<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-image\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"2142\" height=\"1500\" src=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914.jpg\" alt=\"\" class=\"wp-image-4215\" srcset=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914.jpg 2142w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-300x210.jpg 300w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-1024x717.jpg 1024w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-768x538.jpg 768w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-1536x1076.jpg 1536w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-2048x1434.jpg 2048w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-18x12.jpg 18w, https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/uploads\/1520238661914-600x420.jpg 600w\" sizes=\"auto, (max-width: 2142px) 100vw, 2142px\" \/><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\"><a href=\"https:\/\/youtu.be\/4UkM7m1um-w\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">For the full, unedited video of the interview, click here to see it on my YouTube channel.<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What is the value of archaeological excavations in general, and specifically for Biblical studies?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">In general, of course, archaeology is important to me. I\u2019ve been doing it for the past thirty years, all over the State of Israel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Basically, it is exploring the ancient world. It\u2019s showing you the heritage, it\u2019s giving you the culture, the settings, where you came from. So it offers a lot to the general public in relationship to understanding even where we are today. So it\u2019s a very broad area, but at the same time it can be specific to one culture, one ethnic group. So it offers a lot of ideas of where we came from and even where we\u2019re going. Very significant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Specifically, since I\u2019m in the area of Biblical studies, archaeology in the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, it explains, illuminates, it helps us understand and comprehend the biblical text. So it puts a picture with the text. It draws an illustration&#8230;it fills in the gaps that the Bible sometimes doesn&#8217;t tell you. So you\u2019re actually handling the physical remains, the material culture, you see the walls. For examples, like Joshua came into the Land of Israel, and they sent the spies in, and they came back saying there are giants in the land, and the cities were too well fortified. What does that word \u201cfortified\u201d mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Well, I\u2019ve excavated two major fortifications: One at Ashkelon and one at Tel Gezer, and they are huge earthen ramparts. The one at Ashkelon was over 105 feet tall, the one in Gezer, over 100 feet tall, sloping, massive earthenworks. And they were all plastered white. So \u201cfortification\u201d &#8211; when you read that word you think of maybe a nice little wall&#8211;but these were massive structures in the time of Moses and Joshua.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That is just one illustration of what archaeology can do for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What has Tell es-Safi contributed to our understanding of the Biblical narrative?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Tel Gath has proven itself to be a gold mine of cultural elements that we\u2019ve read about, and people have talked about. But now you actually get to pick them up and handle them in your hands. You get to see ceramics, you get to see the houses, you get to see the fortifications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Tel Gath has proven itself to be a gold mine of cultural elements that we\u2019ve read about, and people have talked about.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">That just gives you a unique picture of who these Philistines were: What their expertise were, what their ideas were, their ideology. It\u2019s a lot more than just reading the word \u2018Philistine\u2019. Now you\u2019ve got a whole set of objects and material remains that you can associate with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>Based on what is found here, what can a teacher do differently in their classroom?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">What I always emphasize is a picture. If a picture is worth a thousand words, why aren\u2019t teachers using more illustrations? So anything that you can illustrate with the biblical text, so they can get a visual image &#8211; they\u2019ll never forget the visual image. They\u2019ll forget the words, but the image will stay there. So if you can show them the wall, show them the pottery, show them the temples &#8211; wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">But, the other key thing, something that I\u2019m doing, is reconstructing them. If we can make a visual encyclopedia of the ancient world, we\u2019re doing that with Tel Gezer, I\u2019d like to do it with other sites and with Jerusalem, so that I student can walk inside, see the walls.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">My company is called \u201cThe Virtual Bible Project\u201d. I\u2019ve already launched several different programs with a program called Logos &#8211; Bible Software. I\u2019ve just finished Solomonic Temple, Gezer, and I\u2019ve got a ton of projects coming up. A person can just go the the website and download a program. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What is your message to a student or teacher who are thinking about coming to a dig?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Cities are never located because it\u2019s a nice place to live. In the bible, there are over 2,000 cities mentioned. All of them, when the people built the cities, they knew&nbsp;<em>why<\/em>&nbsp;they were building them,&nbsp;<em>where<\/em>&nbsp;they were located,&nbsp;<em>what<\/em>&nbsp;the significance was. We just read \u201cGath\u201d. But if you don\u2019t see where it connects&#8230; it connects with the international trade route, which is right in front of their door. Same thing with Gezer, where I am. All these cities were located because they were near trade routes, they were obviously near water, but they had to have farming lands for farming, and defenses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Cities are never located because it\u2019s a nice place to live [&#8230;] when the people built the cities, they knew&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>why<\/em>&nbsp;they were building them,&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>where<\/em>&nbsp;they were located,&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>what<\/em>&nbsp;the significance was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">Once you get the visual pictures &#8211; everybody thinks that Israel is nothing but a desert, nothing but a bunch of rocks. But then when you come here, and start looking at the sites, you say \u201cOh, now that makes sense!\u201d Then you can go back to the Biblical texts and you can read about Gezer, Megiddo, all those places, and make a connection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So the Land is what we call \u201cThe Fifth Gospel\u201d. You can have the text, you can have the artifacts &#8211; but it\u2019s the geography &#8211; that\u2019s what makes it come alive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"\">So I\u2019d encourage everybody. Get over here on one kind of trip. Specifically if you\u2019re going to teach biblical studies &#8211; it\u2019s a must! You\u2019re losing one third of the context. Very important!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&nbsp;have&nbsp;had&nbsp;the&nbsp;privilege&nbsp;to&nbsp;visit the Tell es-Safi excavation for&nbsp;two&nbsp;days this summer (July 12&amp;14, 2016). Even better than the visit itself was the opportunity to interview a few archaeologists, each responsible for either this [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"nf_dc_page":"","_uag_custom_page_level_css":"","site-sidebar-layout":"default","site-content-layout":"","ast-site-content-layout":"default","site-content-style":"default","site-sidebar-style":"default","ast-global-header-display":"","ast-banner-title-visibility":"","ast-main-header-display":"","ast-hfb-above-header-display":"","ast-hfb-below-header-display":"","ast-hfb-mobile-header-display":"","site-post-title":"","ast-breadcrumbs-content":"","ast-featured-img":"","footer-sml-layout":"","theme-transparent-header-meta":"","adv-header-id-meta":"","stick-header-meta":"","header-above-stick-meta":"","header-main-stick-meta":"","header-below-stick-meta":"","astra-migrate-meta-layouts":"set","ast-page-background-enabled":"default","ast-page-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-4)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"ast-content-background-meta":{"desktop":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"tablet":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""},"mobile":{"background-color":"var(--ast-global-color-5)","background-image":"","background-repeat":"repeat","background-position":"center center","background-size":"auto","background-attachment":"scroll","background-type":"","background-media":"","overlay-type":"","overlay-color":"","overlay-opacity":"","overlay-gradient":""}},"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-4424","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-en"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v27.2 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Interview with Prof. Jill Katz of Stern College on Tell es-Safi excavation (2016) - themuseumguy<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/he\/post\/interview-with-prof-jill-katz-of-stern-college-on-tell-es-safi-excavation-2016-2\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"he_IL\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Interview with Prof. Jill Katz of Stern College on Tell es-Safi excavation (2016)\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"I&nbsp;have&nbsp;had&nbsp;the&nbsp;privilege&nbsp;to&nbsp;visit the Tell es-Safi excavation for&nbsp;two&nbsp;days this summer (July 12&amp;14, 2016). 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