{"id":4422,"date":"2016-08-01T10:00:00","date_gmt":"2016-08-01T07:00:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/themuseumguy.weblorenz.com\/?p=4422"},"modified":"2026-06-03T00:19:53","modified_gmt":"2026-06-02T21:19:53","slug":"interview-with-prof-jill-katz-of-stern-college-on-tell-es-safi-excavation-2016","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/he\/post\/interview-with-prof-jill-katz-of-stern-college-on-tell-es-safi-excavation-2016\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Professor Dan Warner on Tell es-Safi Excavation (2016)"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I&nbsp;have&nbsp;had&nbsp;the&nbsp;privilege&nbsp;to&nbsp;visit the Tell es-Safi excavation for&nbsp;two&nbsp;days this summer (July 12&amp;14, 2016). Even better than the visit itself was the opportunity to interview a few archaeologists, each responsible for either this or other sites.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">As a&nbsp;Jewish Educator, it really interested me to learn about their perspectives on the importance of archaeology in general, and specifically towards Biblical studies. What we&nbsp;learn from archaeology? For the teachers among us &#8211; not limited to classroom teachers, but a parent, spouse or friend, planning a museum visit &#8211; what can we do differently, with this knowledge in hand?&nbsp;Even if we can\u2019t actually be on the site, ourselves?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">When I tell people that I\u2019m going to visit, say, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, they often respond in wonder&nbsp;\u201cWhat is there to see in the Met, which has&nbsp;<em>any<\/em>&nbsp;Biblical significance?\u201d Most of us just go straight to the overwhelming amount of art galleries, and perhaps walk through the Greek and Roman art, without contemplating the significance they might have to the encounter of Judaism with those cultures. Those statues are decorative, otherwise the hallway to the big pond with the coins would be boring. Perhaps if your kids are reading Percy Jackson (Rick Riordan\u2019s five-part series, 2005-2009), there might be something closer to home about Greek art.&nbsp;It amazes me that people don\u2019t realize the wealth the museum has to offer in terms of archaeology of the ancient world, that that there would be any Biblical significance there. I just found out, for example, that the Ancient Egyptian collection at the Met is the largest in the world, after Cairo (if what their plaque says is accurate). The few hours I\u2019ve spent there were not enough to even scratch the surface, and I can\u2019t wait to go again.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">I recommend checking out the other interviews from this experience, including: Prof. Aren Maeir, and Dr. Daniel Warrener<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">(Disclaimer: Some of the information about the professors is taken from Wikipedia, even if slightly modified)<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong>Interview with Professor Dan Warner<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><em>Dan Warner is the Director for The Michael and Sara Moskau Institute of Archaeology and the Center for Archaeological Research, professor of Old Testament and Archaeology at New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, and is a co-director of the Tel Gezer Water System excavation and preservation project. He has also served various roles on other excavations at Tel Kabri, Megiddo, Tel El Farah, Gerar, and Ashkelon.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nobts.edu\/ArchaeologyCenter\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>http:\/\/www.nobts.edu\/ArchaeologyCenter\/<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.nobtsarchaeology.blogspot.com\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\"><strong>http:\/\/www.nobtsarchaeology.blogspot.com\/<\/strong><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n<!--presto-player:video_id=472--><figure class=\"wp-block-video presto-block-video  presto-provider-youtube\" style=\"--plyr-color-main: var(--presto-player-highlight-color, #0877a7); --presto-player-logo-width: 150px; \">\n\t<presto-player 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08:12:43&quot;,&quot;deleted_at&quot;:&quot;&quot;}'\n\t\tbranding='{&quot;logo&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;color&quot;:&quot;#0877a7&quot;,&quot;logo_width&quot;:150,&quot;player_css&quot;:&quot;&quot;}'\n\t\tchapters='[]'\n\t\toverlays='[]'\n\t\ttracks='[]'\n\t\tblock-attributes='{&quot;playsInline&quot;:true,&quot;id&quot;:472,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;https:\\\/\\\/youtu.be\\\/4UkM7m1um-w&quot;,&quot;preset&quot;:2,&quot;video_id&quot;:&quot;4UkM7m1um-w&quot;,&quot;visibility&quot;:&quot;public&quot;,&quot;color&quot;:&quot;#00b3ff&quot;,&quot;mutedPreview&quot;:{&quot;enabled&quot;:false,&quot;captions&quot;:false},&quot;mutedOverlay&quot;:{&quot;enabled&quot;:false,&quot;src&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;width&quot;:200,&quot;focalPoint&quot;:{&quot;x&quot;:0.5,&quot;y&quot;:0.5}},&quot;mutedOverlayType&quot;:&quot;text&quot;,&quot;mutedOverlayText&quot;:&quot;Click to play&quot;,&quot;mutedOverlayImageWidth&quot;:200,&quot;chapters&quot;:[],&quot;overlays&quot;:[],&quot;tracks&quot;:[],&quot;TrpContentRestriction&quot;:{&quot;restriction_type&quot;:&quot;exclude&quot;,&quot;selected_languages&quot;:[],&quot;panel_open&quot;:true},&quot;title&quot;:&quot;Interview with Prof. Daniel Warner at Tel es Safi, July 2016&quot;}'\n\t\tanalytics=''\n\t\tautomations\t\tprovider='youtube'\n\t\tdirection=\"rtl\"\t\tid=\"presto-player-1\"\n\t\tsrc=\"\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/4UkM7m1um-w?iv_load_policy=3&amp;modestbranding=1&amp;playinline=1&amp;showinfo=0&amp;rel=0&amp;enablejsapi=1\"\n\t\tmedia-title=\"Interview with Prof. Daniel Warner at Tel es Safi, July 2016\"\n\t\tcss=\"\"\n\t\tclass=\"presto-video-id-472 presto-preset-id-2 skin-modern\"\n\t\tskin=\"modern\" \n\t\ticon-url=\"https:\/\/themuseumguy.co.il\/wp-content\/plugins\/presto-player\/img\/sprite.svg\" \n\t\tpreload=\"\" \n\t\tposter=\"\"\n\t\tyoutube=\"{&quot;noCookie&quot;:true,&quot;channelId&quot;:&quot;&quot;,&quot;show_count&quot;:false}\"\n\t\tprovider-video-id=\"4UkM7m1um-w\"\n\t\tvideo-id=\"472\"\n\t\t\t\tvideo-attributes='{}'\n\t\tplaysinline\t\t\t\t>\n\t\t\n    <div class=\"presto-iframe-fallback-container\">\n        <iframe style=\"width: 100%\" title=\"Youtube Video\" class=\"presto-fallback-iframe\" id=\"presto-iframe-fallback-1\" data-src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/4UkM7m1um-w?iv_load_policy=3&amp;modestbranding=1&amp;playsinline=1&amp;showinfo=0&amp;rel=0&amp;enablejsapi=1\" allowfullscreen allowtransparency allow=\"autoplay\"><\/iframe>\n    <\/div>\n\n\t<\/presto-player>\n<\/figure>\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>Transcription of the interview:<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What is the value of archaeological excavations in general, and specifically for Biblical studies?<\/em><\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">In general, of course, archaeology is important to me. I\u2019ve been doing it for the past thirty years, all over the State of Israel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Basically, it is exploring the ancient world. It\u2019s showing you the heritage, it\u2019s giving you the culture, the settings, where you came from. So it offers a lot to the general public in relationship to understanding even where we are today. So it\u2019s a very broad area, but at the same time it can be specific to one culture, one ethnic group. So it offers a lot of ideas of where we came from and even where we\u2019re going. Very significant.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Specifically, since I\u2019m in the area of Biblical studies, archaeology in the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, it explains, illuminates, it helps us understand and comprehend the biblical text. So it puts a picture with the text. It draws an illustration&#8230;it fills in the gaps that the Bible sometimes doesn&#8217;t tell you. So you\u2019re actually handling the physical remains, the material culture, you see the walls. For examples, like Joshua came into the Land of Israel, and they sent the spies in, and they came back saying there are giants in the land, and the cities were too well fortified. What does that word \u201cfortified\u201d mean?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Well, I\u2019ve excavated two major fortifications: One at Ashkelon and one at Tel Gezer, and they are huge earthen ramparts. The one at Ashkelon was over 105 feet tall, the one in Gezer, over 100 feet tall, sloping, massive earthenworks. And they were all plastered white. So \u201cfortification\u201d &#8211; when you read that word you think of maybe a nice little wall&#8211;but these were massive structures in the time of Moses and Joshua.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That is just one illustration of what archaeology can do for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h3 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What has Tell es-Safi contributed to our understanding of the Biblical narrative?<\/em><\/strong><\/h3>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tel Gath has proven itself to be a gold mine of cultural elements that we\u2019ve read about, and people have talked about. But now you actually get to pick them up and handle them in your hands. You get to see ceramics, you get to see the houses, you get to see the fortifications.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Tel Gath has proven itself to be a gold mine of cultural elements that we\u2019ve read about, and people have talked about.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">That just gives you a unique picture of who these Philistines were: What their expertise were, what their ideas were, their ideology. It\u2019s a lot more than just reading the word \u2018Philistine\u2019. Now you\u2019ve got a whole set of objects and material remains that you can associate with them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>Based on what is found here, what can a teacher do differently in their classroom?<\/em><\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">What I always emphasize is a picture. If a picture is worth a thousand words, why aren\u2019t teachers using more illustrations? So anything that you can illustrate with the biblical text, so they can get a visual image &#8211; they\u2019ll never forget the visual image. They\u2019ll forget the words, but the image will stay there. So if you can show them the wall, show them the pottery, show them the temples &#8211; wow.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">But, the other key thing, something that I\u2019m doing, is reconstructing them. If we can make a visual encyclopedia of the ancient world, we\u2019re doing that with Tel Gezer, I\u2019d like to do it with other sites and with Jerusalem, so that I student can walk inside, see the walls.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">My company is called \u201cThe Virtual Bible Project\u201d. I\u2019ve already launched several different programs with a program called Logos &#8211; Bible Software. I\u2019ve just finished Solomonic Temple, Gezer, and I\u2019ve got a ton of projects coming up. A person can just go the the website and download a program. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<h4 class=\"wp-block-heading\"><strong><em>What is your message to a student or teacher who are thinking about coming to a dig?<\/em><\/strong><\/h4>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cities are never located because it\u2019s a nice place to live. In the bible, there are over 2,000 cities mentioned. All of them, when the people built the cities, they knew&nbsp;<em>why<\/em>&nbsp;they were building them,&nbsp;<em>where<\/em>&nbsp;they were located,&nbsp;<em>what<\/em>&nbsp;the significance was. We just read \u201cGath\u201d. But if you don\u2019t see where it connects&#8230; it connects with the international trade route, which is right in front of their door. Same thing with Gezer, where I am. All these cities were located because they were near trade routes, they were obviously near water, but they had to have farming lands for farming, and defenses.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Cities are never located because it\u2019s a nice place to live [&#8230;] when the people built the cities, they knew&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>why<\/em>&nbsp;they were building them,&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>where<\/em>&nbsp;they were located,&nbsp;&nbsp;<em>what<\/em>&nbsp;the significance was<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">Once you get the visual pictures &#8211; everybody thinks that Israel is nothing but a desert, nothing but a bunch of rocks. But then when you come here, and start looking at the sites, you say \u201cOh, now that makes sense!\u201d Then you can go back to the Biblical texts and you can read about Gezer, Megiddo, all those places, and make a connection.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So the Land is what we call \u201cThe Fifth Gospel\u201d. You can have the text, you can have the artifacts &#8211; but it\u2019s the geography &#8211; that\u2019s what makes it come alive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p class=\"wp-block-paragraph\">So I\u2019d encourage everybody. Get over here on one kind of trip. Specifically if you\u2019re going to teach biblical studies &#8211; it\u2019s a must! You\u2019re losing one third of the context. Very important!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I&nbsp;have&nbsp;had&nbsp;the&nbsp;privilege&nbsp;to&nbsp;visit the Tell es-Safi excavation for&nbsp;two&nbsp;days this summer (July 12&amp;14, 2016). 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